Hair Hero
Welcome to "Hair Hero," the ultimate podcast for hairstylists seeking inspiration, knowledge, and growth.
Join your host, Ryan Weeden, founder of the 8-figure brand Masters of Balayage, as he shares his journey from being flat broke to becoming massively successful, all through the power of hair.
Each week, Ryan engages in intimate conversations with industry leaders, icons, and trendsetters, uncovering their secrets to success and sharing actionable insights.
Tune in to elevate your craft, fuel your passion, and become the hero of your own hair journey. New episodes drop every week—don't miss out!
Hair Hero
The Dark Secrets of Epic Hair Industry Retreats (w/ Jamie Dana)
Ever wondered what it takes to plan a jaw-dropping event? Join Jamie Dana and me, Ryan Weeden, as we uncover the secrets behind orchestrating both intimate educational classes and epic large-scale retreats. Jamie shares the inspiring story behind the Ember Retreat, a trailblazing business education retreat tailored for the hair industry, while I reflect on my Hero event, fueled by experiences at personal growth seminars such as those by Brendan Burchard. Get ready to learn how to craft unforgettable, value-packed experiences for your attendees—no matter the size of your event.
Expect laughs and lessons as we recount our adventures in budget-conscious event planning. From hiring a wedding DJ at a discount to navigating the quirky challenges of managing dietary restrictions or accommodating unexpected guests like dogs, our stories are as amusing as they are insightful. We offer practical advice for new educators and event organizers, emphasizing the importance of focusing on delivering top-notch content and always being prepared for the unexpected.
Balayage enthusiasts, this one's for you! Journey with us through the trials and triumphs of breaking into niche education within the hair industry. From the early days of pitching classes to local salons to dealing with the logistical nightmares of live events, we cover it all. We also highlight the irreplaceable value of live, in-person events post-COVID, urging professionals to invest in these transformative experiences to combat burnout and stimulate career growth. Don't miss our heartfelt recommendation: attend at least one live event annually for unparalleled inspiration and networking.
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Be Bold, be Brave, be You.
Thanks for you listening.
-Ryan
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Hey, we're back today with Jamie Dana and Ryan Whedon that's me.
Speaker 2:And that's me.
Speaker 1:That's you. Hey, we thought that it might be cool to talk about what it's like to put on an event of any size, because I feel like any type of event, even if it's like an education class or live class, the same amount of work kind of goes into it, whether it's for five people or whether it's for 500 people. And, jamie, you've got your event coming up. You've got the Ember Retreat, which I'm stoked to be speaking at.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the date on that is October 13th through the 16th.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was on my cozy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a calendar.
Speaker 2:Somewhere People ask me when is Hero cozy?
Speaker 1:People ask me, when is when is hero? And I'm like, ah, it's September. Sometime in September, september the 21st-ish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only reason why I know it's like two days after my birthday, so I'm like okay it's somewhere around my birthday.
Speaker 1:Oh, no way, that's amazing. Well, thanks for being at at hero and we'll. We'll have to celebrate your birthday too, yeah we should so so Ember Retreat this is. How many times have you done that event or events like it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, for me, kind of, in my career I haven't done a lot of, and I think that this conversation is fun because you've done different styles of events. I've done different styles of events. Um, I started Ember Retreat with a business partner, piper DeYoung.
Speaker 2:Um, she's been in the like beauty industry, hair industry for a while now, but her and I started it in 2017 was when we started planning the first one, and the first one was in 2018, which was just wild. It was one of the first hair retreats that were out there. In fact, I think we were the first to come to market in that capacity. I mean, there had been a lot of other retreat adjacent type of events, but we were the first one that was like, okay, we're going in and we're not doing hair education, it's all business education. It's all inclusive, meaning you get your hotel, your food, everything, all the speakers paid for literally for you know, three to four days. So it was like go retreat from your business and learn about business at the same time. So it was like go retreat from your business and learn about business at the same time. So that was kind of the vision for it and we actually drew the vision from the photographer world, because her and I have a ton of friends in the wedding industry and in photography and there was this retreat for photographers I don't remember the name of it, but I remember it being a retreat for photographers and I was like that is brilliant and nobody's doing that in the hair industry. And so we both like had coffee one day and we're like, hey, what could this look like?
Speaker 2:So we had two in 2018, which, again, is also wild to think that we planned two massive events in one year, um, and then we did another one in 2019. We had another one planned for 2020, and then we did another one in 2019. We had another one planned for 2020 and that obviously had to get canceled. So we rescheduled it to like 2021 and at that point we still had to reschedule it just because everything with covid was so crazy. Um, so we technically have done, and we had one last year, in 2023. So we've planned five. Uh, you know we did four of them and we have this last one coming up in october. So, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's just cool to see, like, how it's evolved and changed over the years, and all of that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I guess before I ask you more questions I can kind of talk about kind of how hero started. It's funny you say you're started with the idea and then over coffee.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mine started pretty similarly, where I got the idea for wanting to do this. You said you got yours from wedding photographers that took a retreat. I went to personal growth events and the first big one I went to I've always been interested in them and I've watched them on TV and I've done some virtuals here and there. But I went to one actually in San Diego called Influencer, in 2019, 2018 and 2019.
Speaker 2:I think it was. Yeah, was that Brendan Burchard?
Speaker 1:Brendan Burchard was in town and he put on such a killer show and it was like three power pack day. I think it was three days of just from like seven in the morning to like 7 pm, like you never left your seat because, one, you didn't know what was coming next and two, it was just so content value rich that I'm like whoa, this is amazing. I was impressed on how he was on stage a lot, but he had all these incredible guests come out that were masters of their field. They talked about everything from marketing to storytelling, to business principles, to mindset, and I just left so full and I wanted to give that type of experience to hairdressers. But I'd never put on an event like that. And trying to, you had a partner, piper. Uh, I, I just had that idea in my head. I'm like one day I want to do this and funny enough.
Speaker 1:Later that year I was, uh, maybe the beginning of the next job. Can't remember it's been. It's a whirlwind at this point, you know know, it's like how many years have gone by since we did our first one. But I was sitting around, uh, I think it was premiere one year, premiere, orlando, and my buddy rob, my best friend rob, and I'm just like dude, I would just love to somehow put together like a personal growth, uh kind of event for hairdressers and of course, show them like the balayage and the blonding, but kind of give them what they need to really take their careers and their life to the next level.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's like well, bro, I put on events, that's what I do. And instead of coffee, we were drinking beer and shooting tequila shots but we're just like let's do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and beer, and shooting tequila shots.
Speaker 1:But we're just like, let's do it, yeah, yeah. And I think at that time too, we're just like yeah, let's just call it, let's call it hero. We came up with it like almost on the spot. It was just wild, like, oh yeah, whoa hero. And we get this energy together. We just like rah, rah, rah, yeah, it's, it's super fun. And then we put our next one on in less than a year and man, we threw that together. And, uh, the first one was you were at the first one was that the first one in 2020?
Speaker 1:the first one. Oh yeah, that was a shit show. Yeah, well, you know what?
Speaker 2:it was wild because it was literally like weeks before the world shut down and I remember being there and because so it's in orlando, florida, and like from my perspective, I'm a speaker, I'm coming in and that was my first time I'd ever been to disney world. So you know, I'm exploring that and I just remember like this feeling in the air of people being like what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:There's this coronavirus and I remember going to Disneyland and everything was like Corona.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And there was like the little fingerprint things to get into Disney World and I was thinking like they're going to have to wash these because, like that coronavirus is like going to get all over everything. And yeah, no joke. It was like maybe two weeks, two weeks later, everything was shut down.
Speaker 1:We snuck our first one in just right under the radar, and then the world shut down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was incredible timing, uh. But yeah, you were at our first one and that was amazing and and I I know we paid you like peanuts. So thank you for being there for for there for the experience, because I know it was an experience. We had a wedding DJ going back to the weddings. A wedding DJ, that's all we could afford and it was almost like on a kind of a bro deal. He knew him from an event and he's like, hey, you want to do this, we'll give you like 500 bucks for the show. And he's like, oh, I can handle it, I can handle, I can handle it. It's like got PowerPoints on the ceiling because we didn't have a, we couldn't afford enough AV or an AV team to run the thing and.
Speaker 1:I swear. I thought the stage was going to burn down at one point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was. But that's how it goes and that's the thing like that's so fun and I think, like for anybody who's listening, that's maybe like thinking about doing an event or hosting a class, or maybe you have hosted a class and it was a shit show you know, like, maybe like what is happening, like that's how it begins and there's like this thought that's out there. That's like if you start something and it's perfect, the first time you started too late, like you took too long to start it.
Speaker 2:Right, like it's gotta be bad the first time. It's gotta not be perfect, you know, and like even Ember, we look back and we're like, wow, like we were actually like really proud of how it started, but like seeing what it is now, we're just like, oh my gosh, it's evolved and and like the things we didn't know that time that we now know after you know five retreats, it's just crazy. And you just learn along the way and you figure it out and you laugh at how much you paid people and you're like, hey, thanks for saying yes, you know, thanks for coming to this thing, you know and you know you, you figure it out and every time gets better and you get stronger and smarter about things and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's also funny because I'm sorry I'm messing with my microphones going in and out here, um, okay, uh, when I see all these new educators that are starting their training and I'm like I'm all about like, go for it, I'm excited for you. Ask me for any advice that you might need. And I'm very open with like helping people, because we're all at different stages of where we're at and I could tell everybody I know about how to do something, and it's not like they're going to be able to do it overnight. They're still gonna have to learn on their own, try what works for them overnight. They're still gonna have to learn on their own, try what works for them. So I'm always just like hey, you know I'm I'm excited to do this. Please ask me. If you have any questions, advice needy, I'm happy to offer it.
Speaker 1:Um, never get those calls. Nobody ever asked for advice. They always want to figure it out on their own, and when I see people that are their ticket prices are like initially, through the roof they're. They're like hey, we'll give you a. Don't offer the lunch. Don't offer the lunch you, you can't afford it for your first class. And and then it's like you, you're not going to be able to satisfy everybody's dietary requirement and just all of these things. You learn from experience of doing things. It's just like I know you're trying to be everything for everybody and it's, and it's great that you want to give all that value. But just like, one step at a time, focus on the content, on making them leave with the knowledge that they came to grab. They didn't come for the subs.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I think also, too, like, as you do more events, you start to realize all the like nitty gritty things that you never thought about right, like, for instance, the dietary restrictions, or you know what if somebody shows up late, what if they can't travel in? So like what? One of the things that we learned a lot was policies around what would happen if somebody couldn't come. Somebody had to transfer their ticket, you know, and I think we had some of those things in place in the first one. But then, like, for instance, at our first retreat, we had an attendee and, mind you, this is a three day retreat, so it's like they're staying there where we're booking their rooms. Everything's taken care of for them. She brought her dog with her and it wasn't like a service animal, Like it was like a little tiny, like dog, and this thing's like barking in the middle of the sessions and we're like, okay, like again, not something we ever thought of that this would be a problem, but she's bringing this dog to like the classes.
Speaker 2:The dog pees on one of the other attendees, like during the class, and we're like, oh my gosh, like we'd never have thought that that would have to be something we have to like write into the policies, but like yeah, no, you can't bring a baby, you can't bring a dog, you know you can't bring your, your child, your husband, like, or whatever, your partner like nope, got to think about those things and you know, and then every year we've just kind of had to like evolve and all of that stuff. So, yeah, I think just having those policies in place, like obviously you're not going to be able to know all the things, but just be really smart about when people are buying tickets, like what you're including, what it like make it very obvious Like this is what we're including, this is what's not included. You know, cause you'll have somebody like let's say, you're not including lunch, and then somebody shows up and they're like wait, I thought lunch was included. It's like no, we like made sure that we said that or whatever. Um, or somebody can't come.
Speaker 2:What's the refund policy look like? Do you have a refund policy? Do you have a ticket transfer policy? What does that look like? Are you responsible for transferring the ticket? Are they responsible for transferring the ticket? You know what, if they get in a car accident or get sick the day before and they can't come, like do you give them back their money?
Speaker 1:You know, and I think like with all of those policies.
Speaker 2:Obviously you have different times to where you maybe give concessions for certain things. But yeah, it's uh again. You just kind of learn as you go and figure it out, and figure it out from doing it wrong the first time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta mess up a policy in place for that. Yeah, right, right, right, yeah, yeah, I, I the the list of of things that go wrong are just endless. But I think what makes these events great and what makes the event organizers great are the ability to adapt. So if you want to have an event or teach a class, you need to be willing to accept that not everything is going to go according to plan and be willing to adapt and kind of laugh it up in front of the audience instead of just going, you know, cursing a storm. Be like this is not supposed to go this way, because they don't know what's happening behind the scenes. The whole place could be crumbling behind you, but they don't know that. So you got to go out there and put on that happy face and continue along, and we've had people finish their hour session 30 minutes early.
Speaker 1:And at times we didn't have anything in store for that, because we're on a tight schedule. And then the same thing, people that go over. It's a lot. It's a lot harder if they they leave early, because then you have this weird gap and then it would be something like Ryan, she just walked off the stage or he just walked off the stage. What do we do? And I'm like, I don't know, give me the mic. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna go out there and do something. And it's like you have to have the courage to go out there and just freaking wing it and just be like, hey guys, like a dancing monkey, all right.
Speaker 2:So now we're gonna talk about you know right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, hey, how many of you are salon owners? And yeah, I don't know, we have some. Let's do a giveaway, let's do a giveaway. Yay, guys, we're doing a giveaway.
Speaker 2:You got to find ways to kill time.
Speaker 1:You got to find ways to extend time. You got to find ways to entertain. I think the biggest part of it is the entertainment value. You need to be bigger than yourself normally. You need to I don't know 10x yourself, 20x yourself. So yeah, lots of things can go wrong with events, but it's about how you react to it. That's what makes the event extra special.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm curious for you what is like something that I mean you kind of talked a little bit about, like how you got started with Hero and I know you used to do like in salon events. I know you still do as part of Masters of Bolliage. Are you still doing those things or are you at this point, like your team handles it? What does that kind of event look like? Cause that is a different type of event versus this massive, big event like hero.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and it's funny, there's a lot of different models and ways to do it and if I've done things over the years, I started the masters of balayage, like the actual traveling in 2016. That's when the company was started and I was the self-proclaimed Master of Bolliage, because there's nobody else in the company, so I was the Master of Bolliage.
Speaker 2:I was the one.
Speaker 1:yes, I was like nobody else is going to call me or crown me a master. I'm like, I'm going to be a master, but you wear that crown.
Speaker 1:It's like you got a lot to live up to. So that's another reason why I did that, Because I am always somebody that's trying to seek mastery in life and and always trying to be an expert or better than I was yesterday, yeah. So I'm like, if I call myself a master balayage, I better damn well work my ass off until I become pretty damn good at what I do. So then I was traveling a lot and I think when I, when I first started traveling, it was was funny, because at the time we had, I don't know, maybe 5,000 followers on mob, like not a lot. We were just gaining traction and I knew that I wanted to educate. But at this time there was there wasn't a lot of in salon education that wasn't from like a big company or salon centric or something like that. It wasn't. There was very little independent education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like just getting started. It was just kind of like ramping up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I, literally, starting locally, I'm like, okay, I had some. I wanted to find a salon to host me, and so they had to teach their team or have some invites, people from outside, and I created a PowerPoint to basically sell myself for them. So that, like, this is what you're going to learn from me. This is why you should allow me to come into your salon basically for free, like I wasn't even charging the host. I mean, I was. I think that my ticket prices were like 50 bucks a piece or something super affordable, but nobody's going to pay money unless they're going to realize a return on it.
Speaker 1:So I went to the salon and like I literally felt like I was interviewing for a job. I had my laptop and I'm like, so this is what we're going to go through, this is the format, and, and I and I I was in a salon suite at the time and I there's another guy in the salon suite that I'm like, hey, you want, want to teach with me. I just wanted somebody else there that was just I don't know another body, I guess to try to look like a company at some of some kind, and finally was able to do my first class at a at a salon locally in san diego, in la jolla, and, oh my God, talk about going back to a shit show. This was an absolute shit show.
Speaker 1:The salon wasn't closed. There were people coming in and out Like clients, clients. There were people that would walk up to me look at me. Clients were walking around looking at what I was doing. I was talking but nobody was listening to me. I have some footage. I saw some footage of it from recently. I did, and it was so embarrassing to watch how little control I had over the situation. I didn't have any self boundaries, I didn't have a loud controlling voice Not that it's a loud controlling voice, but I didn't know how to control a room and say hey guys let's pay attention.
Speaker 1:I wanted to grab the attention and hold the attention, because I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I'm doing hair, which is something that I was good at, but doing hair and teaching other people, that's a whole other skill.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's one thing to be standing in front doing hair, but then for them to actually see what you're doing, I mean you have to change your body position, you have to talk to the audience while you're actually progressing through the look. And yeah, that was like one of those things. Okay, band-aid was ripped off. I did another one still pretty terrible. I even the next one. I tried something different and I'm like okay, we got brought on the screen at a PowerPoint and I'm doing this. We're talking about why balayage, what is balayage? This is balayage and this is how you're gonna be more successful. And then did it look and did added the hands-on version to that and I think at first everybody I bought mannequins for everybody. They were a lot cheaper back then, but still 30 bucks a pop or 40 bucks a pop back then. Right now they're like incredible, like 100 dollars or more it's crazy um and uh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the the first half year was a kind of a blur because I was just taking whatever host would allow me to come in, trying to get as many people into that class as possible free or paid, whatever. It would take to get anywhere from 10 to 15 people. And then, as our following started to grow, there wasn't a lot of noise on Instagram at that time. So, oh, they got balayage classes and then we started to just crush it and take off and people were signing up from all over the world and coming to see it and thankfully, because I wouldn't want people coming from all over the world to come see my first or second class.
Speaker 1:First one yeah, yeah, they'd be like what the Refund, please yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they'd be like what the Refund, please yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's how it began and you learn so much along the way because, going back to like, hey, we're going to cater in lunch and have snacks and coffee and breakfast and you realize all that is such a big waste of money as you're moving along, because most people will show up having had eaten or they'll come in with their Starbucks and then if you have coffee there, it's kind of you just wasted all this money on coffee and croissants and usually only one or two people will have any of that lunch. You're going to have people that are vegetarians or vegans or allergic to nuts and it's like. So it's like also who wants to stay in the salon after they've been in the salon all morning and they're going to be in the salon all afternoon, like, if you're in an area where there's local places to get a local feel and experience, go out, get some sunlight, walk around a little bit. It's good for you. Plus, it gives the educators and us a break from you so that we can refocus and bring our energy back to the afternoon.
Speaker 1:It's exhausting to teach a class and then jump into a hands-on, and if you're doing a demo in the morning and a hands-on in the afternoon, then you need to rearrange whatever space that you're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think one of the biggest transitions we made in our education was we went from host salons and we were like that was great. But sometimes the host salons, you don't get a chance to walk in them if they're in a different state and they might be dirty or they might be some kind of a strange or unique layout. Where it's not, it might look okay on we can work with this on a photo but you actually get there You're like Ooh, there's a big pillar in pillar in the way here nobody's gonna be able to see. You got to go 17 rows back and nobody's gonna be able to see back there.
Speaker 1:Um, so we're like let's take more control of this and we're gonna get hotels yeah and we started to get these hotels, but then to do balayage at a hotel you got to pay for all this extra money for like the bisqueen on the floor, because God forbid you get bleach all over the carpet and you stain it. So then it just looks like Dexter. Yeah, it looks like you're about to you know do a lot of bad things and cover it all up.
Speaker 1:You know, without a trace and it just it lacked that that kind of unique feel. And then, and then the outlets. You put more than two plugs, two blow dryers into an outlet. There. We blew every hotel. We went into all the power. We were always getting it. The circuits re retouched up there, yeah, and then let's. And then, of course, where are you going to shampoo your clients? There's nowhere to shampoo your clients. You have to have we were sneaking into kitchens and and bathrooms and hotel rooms or get extra hotel rooms, and it was just such a mess so we went back to host a lot, yeah, yeah, uh, it was just. You know there's no right way to do it, but it takes actually doing something to learn what works and what doesn't and find your own system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild to hear you say that I actually have only taught one hair class ever in my entire career. And so, and it was at a host salon, and they kind of asked me to come in and teach. And I want to say this was back in, had to be either 20, it was probably 2017. And it was this random salon that reached out to me. They were fans of my online education because I have all my online Instagram education. At the time that was just like getting started and they were like, hey, we want you to come teach a hair class. And I was like sure, great. And they kind of took care of it.
Speaker 2:So I didn't really have that experience. It was a small class. I don't even know what I charged for it, but I remember thinking this is so much work, especially because all that I've ever done for education was teach online education, and if I teach it online or I teach a class in a salon or at a convention, I bring my laptop and that's it. I don't have to prep models ahead of time, I don't have to bring color, I don't have to bring mannequins, I don't have to bring anything. No-transcript teaching business, and that's like what I kind of landed into. But yeah, it's a completely different experience and I think for somebody who you know is a stylist is an amazing. Stylist at their salon is great with their clientele Like maybe you're listening to this and maybe you're like I don't ever want to teach ever again. Based off of what Ryan and Jay are saying.
Speaker 2:But I mean like there is so much amazingness of it too, and I think, like you and I can both agree, it's like it is that feeling of being in person, seeing those connections being made, being able to share something, and having that stylist who has maybe is a new stylist or a stylist who's been in the industry for 25, 30 years, and then watch that technique and and see and the light bulbs go off and and then try it out themselves and they're like, oh my gosh, this is, this is what I've been needing, because I've just been doing root touch-ups and highlights now you know, or or I didn't actually learn this in school, or whatever it's and highlights, now you know, or I didn't actually learn this in school, or whatever it's. Those are the moments as to like why we do what we do and there's so much magic in that, and like, yeah, there's some hard parts about it too. You know, you become an event planner, you become a logistics person, you know, but at the same time, like there's so much magic in that too. So I think that there's so much power in it and it can be so much fun.
Speaker 2:It's just, I think, like having expectations of like okay, this is what I'm walking into that it's not just like what you see on Instagram. You show up at the salon, you do some amazing hair, you have a fun time teaching and you go home. There's so much from selling tickets and marketing the class Like that's the side people don't talk about. You know, getting all the logistics ready, like you said, making sure you have the right mannequins and enough tools for everybody to use for hands-on and stands, and all of that stuff to coordinating everything, like there's so much that goes into it. That is just the behind the scenes that the pretty Instagram reel does not show, you know, but I think there's so much power in it too. So, yeah, um, I think there's so much power in it too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think another question a lot of people might have too is cost yeah to put on an event because at first glance somebody might look at this be like, wow, they got all these people in there. Even let's just start at a live event. You know, we charge maybe I don't know anywhere from 500 to a thousand dollars for a two day event at a host salon, at a hotel, whatever. And people are like, wow, there's like 30, 40 people in here. That's like, let's say, 40 times a thousand dollars, $40,000. I mean, that's, that's, that's pretty good, but that's a full class. Some classes are half full, some classes are less, but then if you think about, okay, well, there's three educators teaching there, there's assistants there.
Speaker 1:They all are not local, from the salon, they all had to fly there, they're in hotels, we're like okay, so each educator costs us roughly five thousand dollars with travel and hotel and per diems and payment, and it's like 15 grand and yeah, and then, and then we've got all these other added expenses on top of that and uh, and, and then of course we're we're paying for online services. You're paying for your website, you're paying for your, your, your ticketing site, you're the ticketing fees you're paying taxes on all that know it's not like you're just not clearing 40K or 20K.
Speaker 1:It's like sometimes you're just breaking even, even though it might look like they're making a killing. As far as our business is concerned, our live education is probably the least profitable when it comes down to the net income. You know, you might make half a million dollars or I think we made like almost a million dollars in one year because it was just like an incredible year but then you end up spending six or $700,000, you know in other fees, other expenses and marketing and all these other and it's not just one person doing it. You're paying other people's livelihoods. You're paying other people's livelihoods. You're paying their salaries. When you have a company, you've got a company, you're paying for employees and your employee taxes and space rent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the things.
Speaker 1:All the things, but most people it's not that they are turning a blind eye to it, they just don't know until they actually try something like that themselves.
Speaker 2:And then you've got an event like hero um, we, we kind of got screwed this year and I'll tell you why. Because this is the tea everyone. Yeah, this is the. This is the tea.
Speaker 1:Because behind the scenes, yeah, we got this so-called awesome hotel and they are just being. They're the worst hotel we've ever had to deal with. And they will hear, they've been hearing from us, and they will hear from us after the fact and they're, they're. They're not flexible, they're never available, they're um, and on top of that they're, they're the most expensive hotel we've ever had to pay for. Wow, and we'll never do an event in San Diego again. That's one. It's a destination place.
Speaker 1:It's great, but, man, they know how to potentially take advantage of you if you don't have tons of resource. So, all in all, we're probably going to break even on this event. It's going to be an incredible event and we're going to have lots of people there and tickets sold and retail sold, but all in all, we'll probably be lucky this year if we break even, I think. Overall I don't know it's going to cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars to have this event yeah, with, from the the venue to the AV team, to the staff to and this is local for me, but probably two, two, 50, because also there's a certain amount of hotel rooms you have to fill up. If you don't fill up those hotel rooms and they charge you for it, but the but the here's the, the effed up part of that too.
Speaker 1:They will then turn around and and if you, if you don't fill up all those hotel rooms on those nights, they can turn around and resell those to somebody else yeah if you don't, if you don't fill them by a certain amount of time yeah I'm like no, they're not just available for you, they're not just going to to sit vacant.
Speaker 1:They're like well, we're still going to make extra money on top of that. So that's why they have all these like the, it's the contract, or policies and contracts in place. So I would say that you'll know why people hold events in Texas.
Speaker 1:A lot hold events in Florida or in places where you might not be super excited to go, but the event itself might be magical, because they can take all that extra money that they spent for location and amp it up into what they're giving you, what they're providing. So, man, the venue is hugely important to your net profit, yeah, but but yeah, thankfully, it's not our only business and we have a lot of other things happening where, yeah, we're releasing a color line yeah, yeah, that's super, pumped super pumped and wait till you try this.
Speaker 1:This color, it's, it's mind-blowing. I mean, it's one of those where it's like it's taking us like two years, where every color is is is is better than any other line that I would want to use. So that's what it's all about, um, but yeah, you can tell I'm a little heated today because the hotel has just been like and I'm not the one even dealing with it, I know.
Speaker 2:I know Well, I appreciate you being like transparent about it because I think you know, as we have always said, you know you can see the glamour side from Instagram. You can see these people that look like, oh my God, they're so successful and you are so successful, but it takes a hell of a lot of work to get there and it takes a lot of money to get there too. That it's not all profit. It's not all this money coming in Like wow, here is bringing in tons of money, like I could do that too. It's like maybe, and also it's not what it looks like from the outside.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate the transparency and I will say that, like I talked to so many people in our space, in the hair world, in the online world and just a ton of different industries Events aren't necessarily something that's necessarily going to bring in a ton of profit, but what they do is, to me, they're like a PR move. They are enhancing the brand. They're doing other things, they're giving access to people in a different way. That strengthens that brand connection. And that's how we feel about Ember. To be honest, like the last couple of years, same thing that we've been just about breaking even with, you know ticket sales being lower after COVID and trying to navigate that, like before COVID, the year of COVID we actually sold out our 2020 retreat. March 1st was when the tickets went on sale, so yay for that.
Speaker 2:We sold out in 24 hours or like in the first two hours we sold like literally 99% of our tickets, which is wild and you know it was at a $4,000 price point, so it sold. It did well. We had all of our retreats sell out and then these last couple of years it's been more challenging to sell those tickets and the cost of the food and beverage and like we do include that stuff that literally doubled from COVID. You know, inflation has made a huge, massive thing, so we've had to readjust and change and it's been harder.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I think for us and me personally I look at events of not a moneymaker in the business it does more than that. It's more about impacting people in a different way than they can get from a online workshop, an online course, an online class. It's something special about being in person and, yeah, there's a different reason as to why we do it and I'm sure you guys feel that way too, especially with the color line coming out and your brand enhancement and it's just like now you had, you know, I know, at the last year event you had about 700 people who were there. Those are like people that are like in it with you now.
Speaker 2:Whereas, like, if they watch just the membership or they just watch the course, like yeah, they're devoted fans, they're going to love your content, they're going to love your education, and we all have our I call them fangirls, you know, we all have those people. But there's something special about it being in person and I think like that's the magic and it's like okay, yeah, we can complain about events and all these things, but like, at the same time, there is something so special about it and it's why we keep doing it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Otherwise, like we would not be doing this, like why You're probably listening to this being like why are you still doing classes? Why are you still doing? Events if it's so shitty, it's like no, it's because there is that magic and there is a bigger purpose to it. It's not just about that bottom line dollar making.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you nailed it on the head there. It could also relate it to music. It's like going to a concert versus listening to a CD but nobody listens to CDs anymore, but listening to listening to spotify spotify right, just you might.
Speaker 1:You're gonna enjoy it. Sure, if you listen to it. Spotify, you can put on a repeat, listen to it as many times. But live is a completely different experience. It's unfiltered. There's going to be changes in the song or or connections with the audience, and you can't fake that energy when everybody is in unison, watching and being part of the same experience with you.
Speaker 2:You can't do that with a computer screen. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I mean, I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan People that follow me know that.
Speaker 2:And you know, obviously, if you've not been living under a rock, you know she's on tour right now and I saw her twice and it truly is something that's just like.
Speaker 2:It even enhanced the music now that I listened to. So it's like, yeah, cool, heard the music, listen to it for a long time, spotify in my ears, whatever but you go there in person. It's that magical experience. Like there's literally this like untapped energy that you can't even explain. And now when I listen to the music, I think back to those days of, like that night when it was there at the concert, like it actually enhances it. So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely something there that's just hard to even write up in words and and I think like it's just great to be able to offer that, and I also think that, like post COVID, our industry needs that and that's been like the. The saddest thing to me is so many events that happened pre COVID, whether it was hair shows, you know, the hair show landscape has changed, conferences have changed. People just aren't buying tickets and I don't know if you guys are seeing that with your in-person classes in the salon with hero, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we're changing our whole model next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because people just aren't buying tickets. And it makes me sad because I'm like gosh, what you're missing out on. I understand that it's a big investment and I understand that it's whatever you got to budget it into your education. But education is so important and there is something that's really different and unique about being there in person, like, yes, you and I both teach online education. I love that every day, but at the same time, there's something so special about that. So that's what makes me sad about our industry is we're not seeing that as much.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, ah, like if you would only take that leap, take that investment, book the plane ticket, come to the event, you would literally have your business change. And I know I've been a part of a mastermind. I've been a part of events like that, like you mentioned, with you going to Brendan Burchard's event. Can you imagine where your business might be if you hadn't attended that event Like that changed the trajectory of a lot of things that you did. Same thing with me. I've been a part of these events and things that I've gone to and they've literally made massive changes in my business and I'm so grateful that I went to them and I can't imagine where my business would be if I hadn't experienced that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think. Also, too, it's important for people that aren't necessarily self starters. Um, because you need to be a self starter, somebody that can focus on an online course to get the most out of it, but it's obviously not for everybody. If you're thrown into a live event, you have no choice but to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's no way but to be swept up into it and to learn something and to do the work. You're not going to be pretending to journal while everybody else is journaling something. If you're prompted by the person on the stage, hey, write down. You journaling something. If you're prompted by the person on the stage, hey, write down. You know your reason why you blah, blah, blah, blah. You're not going to just fake it. You're going to actually do the work and that's where you have these incredible breakthroughs. That's why it's important to show up for, I would say, at least one live event per year. It's so important, if you could. What I try to do is one at the beginning and one at the end of the year. Summer is just like, yeah, it's hard to get focused on anything. I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But beginning of the year, end of the year, yeah, try to do something that really brings you together. Not only are you going to have this new invigorated feeling going back into your life and not just your business, your life you're probably going to meet some of your new best friends.
Speaker 2:Yes, your life, you're probably going to meet some of your new best friends. Yes, yes, yeah. And I think like also to one of the things that I keep hearing from hairstylists and I'm sure that you probably have heard this from either people that are coming to classes or you're talking to in your DMs but I have so many people saying to me like I'm just so burnt out, like I don't know if I want to keep doing this, but I have to keep doing it because it pays the bills. But, like I'm, I'm think about it. The amount of people who come to an event like Hero, that's like less than 1% of our industry. I mean, it's like probably 0.1% of our industry.
Speaker 2:Those are people that you want to be surrounded by Again, sitting next to somebody that you've never met before, from a completely different state, and you're like, wow, watching them learn and journal and interact, and you're like, okay, yeah, like these are my people, this is who I want to be around.
Speaker 2:It inspires you in a completely different way than what you can get in your room watching an online course or just going about your day, you know, with everybody complaining in the back room, hearing the same thing over and over again, and early on in my career, that was something that was really important to me was going to hair shows, going to events like this, and I was able to leave a very toxic salon environment because of that, because they were all like, wait, what are you going to? Why are you going to that class, why are you doing this? And it was just negative energy all the time and it was the thing that broke me out of it. I was like, yeah, I'm moving forward without you guys. I left that salon, opened my salon suite, then opened my salon, started my online education and my career took off because of that, and I truly believe that events are part of that.
Speaker 2:So I think that's another reason why I keep doing them and why I love them, and when people ask me to be a part of them, I'm like yeah, like let's try to make it happen, because I just see so much power in that, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, if you've gotten nothing else from this, come to one of these events, come to Ember, come to Hero, do something for yourself, to surround yourself with your people so you can learn, be immersed in the experience and have that kind of a quantum leap of growth. That's how it happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm so glad we got to have this conversation today. I think it was so helpful. It was people who are like thinking about doing events themselves, people who just are maybe wanting the tea around events um, I love this and it's uh, I found I I learned a lot from you just hearing your story, so I learned a lot from you too. That was fun it was.
Speaker 1:It was almost like a venting session in a way too because it it's just like you. That happened to you too. Yeah, me too. Oh, I hate it, but I love it, yeah, I love it. All right, jamie. Well, we'll talk very soon, and uh man, this was fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for listening to everybody.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining today, guys.
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